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Planning poker - the real epiphany

March 27, 2009 by Jack Milunsky

Intro
Last week I established three good reasons to go with Story Points and why they're so popular. This week I want to talk about one more important aspect of story points and then provide tips on how to get started estimating in Story Points. I find this is a rather big challenge for teams just learning the ropes.

Lets talk
Scrum is a learning framework. It's been designed specifically with Inspect and Adapt points with a very specific purpose. Because estimating is a cross-functional team activity estimating the backlog is just another opportunity for the team to get together to discuss the task at hand, for the stakeholder or product owner to explain what is expected of the team. This discussion is a great way to build team morale, synchronize expectations and getting everyone singing to the same tune. Because Scrum projects are agile, it’s important that teams engage in discussion to ensure the team stays on the right track. And because the estimation is done in a team setting the estimate is generally more accurate as it represents a cross functional view of the task size, not just the developer view.

Difficulty
A couple weeks ago, I was helping a company understand how to estimate the backlog. This company is new to agile and I was introducing them to Planning Poker and Story Points. Firstly the idea of Planning Poker was some sort of a joke to them. Second getting them to understand Story Points, a seemingly meaningless measurement, seemed to be a non-starter for them.

Ideal hours first
This is where ideal hours came to the rescue. They were far more able to wrap their heads around ideal hours i.e. if you lock the developers and testers in a room with zero interruptions, how long would it take. I figured that once they got their initial stories estimated in ideal hours down, switching to Story points will be easy as they would have established a scale of reference to compare against. This approach worked really well. They're now into their 3rd Sprint and now that they have an existing scale, whether the number is in ideal hours or story points or dog points for that matter, it really doesn't matter any more. If you're new to agile estimating, and you're having trouble coming to terms with Story Points try this first and then make the switch later.

The real epiphany
Planning poker for them was a real epiphany. What started out as a joke soon turned out to be a really, really rich experience. For the first time in the companies history, there was actual dialog. The biggest benefit came from the discussion that ensued after the first round of cards were played. The two outliers (i.e. the folks that estimated low and high) were asked to explain why the big difference. The dialog and information exchange at that point was extremely valuable. I watched their faces after the first user story was done. It took only 5 minutes. And everyone was in sync. I saw the light bulbs go on in their heads. They have never looked back since.

Planning poker has to be the simplest most effective ceremony ever invented. I highly recommend it. There are also variations of planning poker, check out James Grenning's blog for more details














About the Author: As COO and Scrum Master, Jack Milunsky heads software development at Brightspark. Jack is an early adopter of Scrum and has a great passion for early stage startups. Jack is co-creator of Agilebuddy, a next generation Scrum Application SaaS. Jack combines over 18 years of experience managing software development teams both large and small. You can follow Jack for great tips on Agile at http://twitter.com/agilebuddy

Comments

Matches my experiences

March 27, 2009 by Ola Ellnestam (not verified), 5 years 39 weeks ago
Comment id: 2416

Hi,

Your observations matches my experiences.

The real benefit of planning poker are the discussions that arise around how stories are to be implemented. These discussions aren't half as productive or might not even pop up when everyone is defending an estimate in absolute numbers. I.e time.

Danger of getting too detailed

March 27, 2009 by Ted Young (not verified), 5 years 39 weeks ago
Comment id: 2417

One thing my team's been dealing with lately is getting too detailed in the discussion, when it's not necessary to give a reasonable estimate. Other issues we've had are where we can't bring the estimates to a consensus, e.g., half the people say 3 points and the other half say 5 points and neither one thinks the other estimate is correct.

Too detailed

March 27, 2009 by jackMilunsky, 5 years 39 weeks ago
Comment id: 2418

Hi Ted,

Thanks for your comments. I highly recommend a timer with an alarm. You set it for 2 mins a round. If you like you can make it a bit longer. And try to only have 2 maximum 3 rounds.

If you don't reach consensus, don't worry about it. Take the higher number. That perfectly alright. In the end the truth will surface i.e. how long it actually took. But the difference between a 3 and 5 pointer is not that significant in actual fact.

The important thing is that you understand what is required and you have a reasonable estimate of how long it's going to take.

I find, always take the practical approach

Jack

3 vs 5

March 28, 2009 by Janusz Gorycki, 5 years 39 weeks ago
Comment id: 2419

Ted,

The diference between 3 and 5 story points is insignificant. Pick either 3 or 5. Or 4 (yes, you are allowed to do that - it is YOUR project). If you picked 3, then next story that gets you in this sort of discussion - you pick 5 - so that you are statistically right.

Remember - this is statistical measurement, and you do not have to be 100% precise - you will be off with your estimations anyway, no matter how hard you try to be exact.

You WOULD be in trouble if half of the team said 1 and the other half said 13 - and nobody would be willing to budge. This means there is something wrong - most likely with the story definition.

Cheers
Janusz

some clarification please

April 9, 2009 by laszloS (not verified), 5 years 37 weeks ago
Comment id: 2452

Hi Jack,
In reading through this post, I have some concern. Can you clarify these points:

(a) Product Owner involvement in size estimation
"And because the estimation is done in a team setting the estimate is generally more accurate as it represents a cross functional view of the task size, not just the developer view."

Are you advocating that the Product Owner also do size estimations with the team? If not, what do you mean by, "not just the developer view"?

(b) Ideal Hours
Jack, I really hope you're joking here about Ideal hours. The idea in Scrum is to have two different scales of estimation - one PBI level and another @ the task level. Using the concept of 'ideal hours' can really confuse newbies and encourage them and lead them towards micro measurement.

For more on this topic, I would encourage your readers to jump over and read this article on estimation by Certified Scrum Trainer and Certified Scrum Coach Kane Mar instead: http://danube.com/system/files/Story+Points+as+Spiciness+blog.pdf

Supplemental readings on macro vs. micro measurement by Certified Scrum Trainer Michael James can be found here: http://danube.com/whitepaper/macro-measurements

Some clarifications

April 11, 2009 by jackMilunsky, 5 years 37 weeks ago
Comment id: 2453

It's always good to have the PO present if possible for elaboration purposes. i.e. if the team requires clarification in scope etc. The PO does not actullly participate in the estimation. By crossfunctional I mean, dev, test, tech writing, dba's etc i.e. any functional group that will be part of the development process

I am not joking at all. There are many teams that wrestle with getting to grips with story points. Ideal hours although not ideal is an option that one can consider. I have used it very successfully to transition teams. Mike Cohn discusses this in his book Agile Estimating and Planning as a viable option.

Thanks for your feedback
Jack

I don't profess to know

August 20, 2009 by Anonymous (not verified), 5 years 18 weeks ago
Comment id: 2991

I don't profess to know everything there is to know about scrum or product owners.

But aren't they supposed to be completely tactical? Of course, they need insight in to the business, and they need to put themselves in the customers shoes. But are they doing customer visits, gathering market research, constructing segmentation strategies, pricing models, responsible for P&Ls, positioning the product, writing requirements, etc...?

If not, the role should not be confused with a product manager.

My understanding, admittedly limited and not as extensive as Jack's, is that a PO represents the product manager and their priorities in an agile scenario - but they do not replace the PM.

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I would have the training

March 2, 2012 by NOnn (not verified), 2 years 42 weeks ago
Comment id: 21205

I would have the training wheels period be a team choice. As a coach. I'd let them know where I thought they were as a team. and suggest going into a training wheels period. I'd set an explicit time when we'd reevaluated this decision. Since people are so used to having freedom taken away. I think you have to remind them that they have freedom. sosh forfait sans engagement forfait mobile illimite sms illimite forfait mobile internet forfait bloque rio sfr rio orange rio sfr numero rio bouygues rio virgin imc portabilite

http://www.monstersbeatsoutlets.com/

March 24, 2012 by Monster Pro Monster Solo (not verified), 2 years 39 weeks ago
Comment id: 21474

Your blog is really helps for my search and i really like it.. Thanks a lot

I do not believe that

May 23, 2012 by JennyH886 (not verified), 2 years 31 weeks ago
Comment id: 22378

I do not believe that developers can plan for beginner user experience of the product they build. When developers build a product they tend to do happy path testing forgetting about unexpected behavior and more creative ways of using the software. That's why you need testers on project. Numbers of Test Cases and line coverage don't say anything about quality o the tests. numéro rio

Comment Gagner de l'argent Facilement a la Bourse en ligne !

June 5, 2012 by gagnerargenttt (not verified), 2 years 29 weeks ago
Comment id: 22787

http://gagner-argent-bourse.com

Vous voulez savoir comment recevoir beaucoup d'argent à la Bourse en ligne grâce à une méthode simple : Le suivi de tendance.

Surtout, je tiens à vous réconforter... C'est assurément simple à saisir.

LES OPTIONS BINAIRES ?

C'est un système de bourse en ligne où il faut jouer sur la hausse ou la descente d'une action en bourse. Les actions se clôturent toutes les 30 minutes.

En gros, si vous pariez sur la hausse de l'or et qu'au bout de 30 minutes l'or est relevé, alors vous encaisser 180% de votre mise. Par contre, lorsque ce n'est pas le cas, vous perdez votre mise de démarrage.

COMMENT ÊTRE SÛR DE GAGNER ?

Vous avez un moyen d'anticiper la hausse ou la baisse grâce à la méthode de suivi de tendances.

Il subsiste 3 tendances : La tendance haute, la tendance basse et la tendance neutre.

Pour dépister ces tendances vous devez regarder les graphiques en temps réel.

Pour davantage de renseignements, veuillez visiter le site Argent Bourse, vous pourrez observer une vidéo de démonstration.

Good writing. Thanks for

September 13, 2012 by Anonymous (not verified), 2 years 14 weeks ago
Comment id: 23851

Good writing. Thanks for sharing. Keep up posting.

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This is where ideal hours

January 14, 2013 by Anonymous (not verified), 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment id: 25419

This is where ideal hours came to the rescue. They were far more able to wrap their heads around ideal hours i.e. if you lock the developers and testers in a room with zero interruptions, how long would it take. I figured that once they got their initial stories estimated in ideal hours down, switching to Story points will be easy as they would have established a scale of

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This is where ideal hours

February 22, 2013 by eoter (not verified), 1 year 43 weeks ago
Comment id: 26395

This is where ideal hours came to the rescue. http://www.passguides.com/350-030.html They were far more able to wrap their heads around ideal hours i.e. if you lock the developers and testers in a room with zero interruptions, how long would it take. I figured that once they got their initial passguide 642-832 stories estimated in ideal hours down, switching to Story points will be easy as they would have established a scale of reference to passguide 350-030 compare against. This approach worked really well. They're now into their 3rd Sprint and now that they have an existing scale, whether the number is in ideal hours or story points or dog points for that matter, http://www.passguides.com/642-832.html it really doesn't matter any more. If you're new to agile estimating, and you're having trouble coming to terms with Story Points try this first and then make the switch later.

Because estimating

March 2, 2013 by Anonymous (not verified), 1 year 42 weeks ago
Comment id: 26475

Because estimating http://www.testinsides.com/certification-VMware.html is a cross-functional team activity estimating the backlog is just Vmware braindumps another opportunity for the team to get together to discuss the task at hand, for Vmware dumps the stakeholder or product owner to explain what is expected of the team. Vmware exams

An interesting article I saw

March 4, 2013 by Anonymous (not verified), 1 year 42 weeks ago
Comment id: 26514

An interesting article I saw today on user stories asked the question "is 199-01 exam there need for an Idea Log" i.e. a separate log for ideas to be formulated before going into the backlog. My opinion on this is that you never know when and where the next great story is going to come from. Every idea is probably a good one and should be considered. 199-01 practice test I still believe in a single backlog to manage all user stories. Even if it get's a little out of hand. In this case, one can consider initially grouping multiple user stories to make it more manageable. And then, when the story is considered high enough of a priority, the 220-802 exam story can be dis-aggregated into smaller ones. There's a certain importance 220-802 practice test suggested when telling customers "it's on the backlog". If it doesn't go on the backlog, folks are going to stop coming up with ideas.

This is where ideal hours

March 12, 2013 by Anonymous (not verified), 1 year 41 weeks ago
Comment id: 26697

This is where ideal hours came to the rescue. They were far more able to wrap their heads around ideal hours i.e. if you lock the developers and testers in a room with zero interruptions, how long would it take. I figured biznes that once they got their initial stories estimated in ideal hours down, switching to Story points will be easy budownictwo as they would have established a scale of reference to compare against. This approach ciekawostki worked really well. They're dom now into their
edukacja 3rd Sprint and now that they have an existing scale, film whether the number is in ideal hours finanse or story points or dog points for that matter, it really doesn't matter any more. If you're new to agile estimating, and you're having trouble coming to terms with Story Points try this first and then make the switch later.

Planning poker for them was a

March 13, 2013 by Anonymous (not verified), 1 year 41 weeks ago
Comment id: 26716

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Actual Answers || Actual

May 25, 2013 by Muna (not verified), 1 year 30 weeks ago
Comment id: 27968

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June 3, 2013 by Anonymous (not verified), 1 year 29 weeks ago
Comment id: 28264

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September 13, 2013 by masihakudisini (not verified), 1 year 14 weeks ago
Comment id: 29242

مصطفى1

March 3, 2014 by منتدى (not verified), 42 weeks 4 days ago
Comment id: 31727

اهلا وسهلا بكم في
تحميل برامج مجانية
حيث نقدم لكم مجموعة من البرامج وهى عباره عن
برنامج تحويل الصور الي كارتون
وهو يعمل على تحويل الصور الى كارتون و كما يوجد افيرا مكافح الفيروسات
تحميل افيرا مكافح الفيروسات
و افضل
برنامج لحماية الفلاش ميموري من الفيروسات
و اجمل برنامج تعديل فيديو
برنامج للتعديل على ملفات الفيديو

ver

March 18, 2014 by tabela (not verified), 40 weeks 3 days ago
Comment id: 32179

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7meter

June 9, 2014 by Anonymous (not verified), 28 weeks 5 days ago
Comment id: 33356

tnx

September 4, 2014 by leo (not verified), 16 weeks 2 days ago
Comment id: 34772

Great buddy Happy Diwali

October 17, 2014 by Happy (not verified), 10 weeks 17 hours ago
Comment id: 35941

Great buddy Happy Diwali wishes, images, quotes, Shayari

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October 21, 2014 by Diwali SMS (not verified), 9 weeks 3 days ago
Comment id: 36063

Mate this is a very nice blog here. I wanted to comment & say that I enjoyed reading your posts & they are all very well written out.

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Great buddy Happy Diwali

October 23, 2014 by happy (not verified), 9 weeks 2 days ago
Comment id: 36255

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October 23, 2014 by buddy HAPPY DIWALI (not verified), 9 weeks 2 days ago
Comment id: 36317

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October 23, 2014 by buddy Happy new year (not verified), 9 weeks 1 day ago
Comment id: 36353

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October 23, 2014 by buddy Happy new year (not verified), 9 weeks 1 day ago
Comment id: 36354

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This Is Example Of Well

November 1, 2014 by Veterans Day (not verified), 7 weeks 6 days ago
Comment id: 36715

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November 3, 2014 by Veterans day Poems (not verified), 7 weeks 4 days ago
Comment id: 36831

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November 9, 2014 by Rajesh (not verified), 6 weeks 5 days ago
Comment id: 36975

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Christmas and New Year Wishes

December 11, 2014 by Happy Christmas and New Year Wishes (not verified), 2 weeks 1 day ago
Comment id: 38316

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